Interview by: Tong, PANews

Edited by: Yuliya, PANews

From a Wall Street investment banking elite to a staunch Web3 investor, Joseph Chee, founding partner of Summer Capital, has completed a career transition across economic cycles, leveraging over 20 years of experience in the capital markets. This PANews interview focuses on his journey from Malaysia to Wall Street, and then to the Chinese market, as well as his strategic considerations in heavily investing in Solana after judging that blockchain was "stable" in 2021, and personally assuming the role of executive director of Solana Company. The interview also covers the current predicament of RWA, Hong Kong's role in the digital asset landscape, and opinions on the reshaping of the crypto market cycle after the entry of traditional capital.

From Wall Street to Web3: The Fate and Perseverance of a Veteran Investment Banker

PANews: Mr. Zhu, hello. I'm Tongtong, co-founder and editor-in-chief of PANews. We know you were formerly the head of UBS Investment Bank's Asia Pacific region, with over 20 years of impressive experience in the capital markets, witnessing the golden age of Asian IPOs. For many readers in the Web3 field, you might be somewhat unfamiliar. Could you please briefly introduce your background?

Mr. Zhu: Thank you for this opportunity today. My transition from traditional industries to the cryptocurrency world has been a relatively long process, and I'm happy to share my journey.

I'm a Chinese person who grew up in Malaysia, where the pace of life is slow and society is relaxed, so my mindset is also quite relaxed. At 17, I went to the United States to study, where I spent 12 years in a relatively free environment. My career started with luck—I studied mechanical engineering and had no financial background whatsoever. After graduating with my bachelor's degree, I worked for a traditional medical device company until I earned my MBA and then applied for jobs on Wall Street.

Normally, a resume like mine would hardly get me into a top investment bank. But it was during the peak of the dot-com bubble, and many elites from top business schools went off to start their own businesses, which actually reduced the competition for me. That's how I got lucky and landed a job at what was then Salomon Brothers (later merged into Citigroup). Of course, hard work is fundamental, but luck is definitely a factor.

Once you're in, investment banks will hone you like a "slave," forcing you to develop your skills rapidly in a very short time. In those institutions, you'll be bombarded with an immense amount of information, and you must learn to analyze the world using logic, frameworks, and data. Investment banking is a global business; analysts study countries, industries, and companies from macro to micro perspectives, top to bottom.

Early in my career, I worked in M&A in Hong Kong, participating in the listing projects of several large companies. One of the more notable projects was the restructuring of Bank of China (Hong Kong), where we merged 12 banks and credit card companies into what is now the second largest bank in Hong Kong. After that, I went to Taiwan, where I also caught a wave of opportunity.

Later, I saw China's enormous potential. Back then, people invested in China Mobile and PetroChina, buying into the "China story," the expectation of increased efficiency after the privatization of state-owned enterprises—a macro-level, long-term "China Bet." I realized that to truly learn, you have to participate personally, just like investing in cryptocurrency today. I'm not one to passively accept fate; I like to take the lead and push boundaries.

So I went to China, and we made UBS the number one equity issuance business in the Asia-Pacific region, with the largest portion of our business coming from China. I remember moving to China in 2006 and establishing a joint venture brokerage firm with the Beijing government—UBS Securities. In the first year, our A-share issuance volume ranked third in the country, second only to CICC and CITIC. It was a time of hard work; Chinese investment bankers were incredibly dedicated and considerate of their clients. Looking back now, we were truly unaware of our good fortune and took everything for granted. That golden age of sustained, rapid economic growth for over a decade is unlikely to return.

It was around that time that I started paying attention to blockchain. I felt this might be a new entry point, a new hope. Because blockchain could potentially form a "barrier" or "unregulated zone" that is difficult for regulation to fully penetrate. I hope that blockchain can create an ever-expanding space where young people who love freedom and transparency can create and innovate as they please without being restricted by so many rules and regulations, just like the internet entrepreneurs of the 1990s.

When I first saw this concept, I loved it. We had founded a cryptocurrency bank in Switzerland and started paying attention to the industry. I had witnessed too many emerging industries grow from nothing, such as China's first listed real estate company and the first 4S car dealership. By 2021, I made the judgment: the blockchain sector was stable. It was large enough, with enough smart people, enough capital, and enough powerful stakeholders. Even though major governments didn't support it at the time, it had already gained market recognition. From then on, we began to invest heavily and accelerate development.

PANews: Summer Capital was founded in 2018, focusing on innovative healthcare and crypto. But my feeling is that between 2018 and 2021, you seemed to be taking a relatively cautious and wait-and-see approach in the crypto field, only starting to make a big push after 2021. Is that right?

Mr. Zhu: Yes. Strictly speaking, Summer Capital was renamed and established in January 2018. We actually acquired a licensed fund company in Hong Kong in 2017, but because the Securities and Futures Commission (SFC) takes time to approve the change of controlling shareholder, it officially started operating after that.

Thoroughly understanding an industry requires a significant investment of time. You need to distinguish between good and bad people, between genuine and fake experts, and know where to find reliable data. There are many so-called "narratives" within an industry that are logically accepted, but whose actual development is not always as portrayed. After several years of reflection, we've figured out which industries are truly "evergreen."

I think choosing Crypto was the right decision. It perfectly aligns with my interests and personality. I enjoy building things from the ground up, and Crypto was an "underdog" at the time, facing prejudice and discrimination from the traditional world. The feeling of breaking through from the bottom up—if I could prove them wrong and us right—resonated with me. Therefore, I believe choosing the cryptocurrency and blockchain industry was the right decision.

The Birth of Solana Company: Identifying the Opportunity and Executing Quickly

PANews: In August of this year, we saw that Pantera, along with several other organizations, established a DAT called Solana Company, and you personally took on the role of executive director. Why did you decide to personally assume this important position?

Mr. Zhu: I'm the kind of person who, once I've thought things through, will stick to my plan. Now is the right time for this industry, and this company can leverage my years of accumulated experience and strengths, such as how to deal with investors and regulatory agencies, and how a good listed company should operate. In these areas, I know more than most people because I know the major institutional investors.

This is a very rare opportunity. First, I have a very good relationship with the Solana Foundation; their headquarters are right next to our Swiss bank headquarters. We've long since gone beyond a business relationship and become friends, so this trust-based collaboration has been very smooth.

Secondly, I wanted to do this in the US. My thinking was clear; I knew what I lacked—a strong American partner. At the time, the DAT sector was primarily a Wall Street game, with only a handful of truly experienced investment institutions. Pantera and we happened to be co-investors on some projects, so I visited them in New York, and we quickly reached an agreement. Of course, they also needed to follow internal procedures, as being the sponsor of DAT meant taking on risks. Being just a shareholder would have been low-risk; but stepping forward and taking the lead, bringing their own money, LP money, and market funds, carries a high risk of litigation in the US.

We started taking action around June. After my board meeting, I noticed that several Solana-related projects weren't performing well. I had also considered working on Ethereum, because logically, the order should be Bitcoin, Ethereum, and then Solana (BNB and Ripple were not under my consideration due to insufficient decentralization). Wall Street is shrewd; they look at the fundamentals of public blockchains.

But the market waits for no one. Just as we were discussing this, Joseph Lubin of ConsenSys and Tom Lee of Fundstrat launched large-scale Ethereum-based projects one after another; the market moved very quickly. I immediately felt we were too slow, and the window of opportunity for Ethereum had closed. So we decided: to go all in on Solana.

Around late July, both Pantera and the Solana Foundation confirmed their intentions. By around August 10th, all internal procedures and legal/regulatory issues were settled, and we obtained permission to use the name "Solana Company." From decision to basic completion, it only took us four weeks, without even hiring an investment bank; it was just our lawyers and ourselves working. At the time, we were very sensitive to the market and felt that the window of opportunity was crucial, as the market wouldn't always go up. This truly brought back the feeling of competing with others and returning to a familiar battlefield that I had experienced when doing IPOs.

The DAT battle: The real competition is taking place on Wall Street.

PANews: There are actually several Solana DATs on the market right now, including one personally managed by Kyle Samani of Multicoin Capital. What do you think will be the core competitive advantages among these DATs in the future? And what advantages could Solana Company have to gain an edge?

Mr. Zhu: Kyle (Multicoin) and Mike Novogratz (Galaxy Digital) are people I respect. I'm not particularly familiar with Jump. Their combination is quite interesting: one comes from a traditional investment bank (Mike comes from Goldman Sachs and wants to build a new Goldman Sachs in the crypto world), one grew up in the crypto world (Kyle), and the other is a short-term trader (Jump).

However, we don't quite agree with their approach. We believe that DAT has a business model geared towards Wall Street, and its main investors should be funds from the traditional financial world. You can see that after many DAT companies went public, they spent a lot of energy signing cooperation agreements and issuing announcements with various ecosystem projects in the cryptocurrency circle, but this is actually meaningless. Wall Street people don't understand it, and the stock price doesn't move at all, or even keeps falling.

You must clearly understand what Wall Street investors want . Those from the cryptocurrency world may not understand the different investor landscape and tasks a publicly traded company needs to engage with at different stages of its lifecycle, from a few hundred million to a market capitalization of tens of billions. This is where our advantage lies. You need to know the investor landscape: sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, long-term funds, hedge funds, etc., then identify those that are likely to convert in the short term and begin engaging with those requiring long-term commitment (such as sovereign wealth funds). This is a marathon, with the goal of building a world-class publicly traded company.

We are unique in our issuance structure, scale, and management methods.

• First, we're keeping the size at $500 million . If it's too large, it might not grow much. Some competitors want to "snap up" all the money in the market, leaving us unable to raise funds, but this idea shows they haven't understood the market. If you "snap up" too much, you'll include some investors with weak convictions, who are likely to run away when the lock-up period expires. We're looking for high-quality investors who believe in our team, endorse Solana, and have long-term capital. The stability of a listed company requires these core investors who focus on fundamentals.
• Secondly, we respect the rules of the capital market . You see, when the market was down recently, many DAT tokens controlled by people in the cryptocurrency circle used various methods to postpone the lifting of restrictions, fearing a drop in share price. But we insisted on lifting restrictions on time, even when the market was at its worst. I wrote to all investors saying that we must keep our promises; this is corporate governance. If you break your promises the first time, who will trust you in the future? Those who trust us can continue to hold; those who want to leave, that's your choice.

It is precisely because of this strategy that our company has maintained the highest premium, liquidity, and trading volume since its listing .

PANews: What are the main points of hesitation for traditional investors when you contact them?

Mr. Zhu: This varies greatly in different regions. In the United States, investors are relatively sophisticated. After reviewing your custodian bank, legal structure, etc., and if you meet the requirements, they rarely ask "Why Solana?" They are more concerned about your management philosophy and team.

However, in the Asia-Pacific region, investors are indeed lagging behind. Many CEOs of large funds genuinely don't know what Solana is, and some don't even fully understand Bitcoin or Ethereum. They ask many basic questions, such as, "Didn't Solana used to frequently experience outages?" or "Isn't that FTX's coin?" They're only just beginning to research. This process takes time, just like some of my friends who said Bitcoin would go to zero a few years ago are now quietly accumulating coins themselves. I believe they will eventually enter the market.

PANews: Will Solana Company participate in the future development of the Solana ecosystem? What will be the driving force for Solana's next stage of development?

Mr. Zhu: Of course we will participate. Solana's success is our success. Our cooperation agreement with the Solana Foundation clearly states that we will help them build their ecosystem in the Asia-Pacific region, including various activities and forums.

As for the driving force behind Solana's development, I think the foundation's top management is very visionary and decisive. Their goals are clear: first, to improve technology and efficiency; second, to become the infrastructure of the global financial industry, bringing everything that can be put on the blockchain to Solana; and third, to unify global liquidity.

To achieve these goals, all their technological upgrades and ecosystem development efforts are geared towards this direction. And to achieve all this, there are two key indicators:

• First, institutionalization, that is, gaining acceptance from large institutions;
• Secondly, there's the number of developers . This is why China is so important to Solana, because China has a huge developer population. If Solana could attract just 10% of Chinese developers, it would experience rapid growth.

This is something I'm very willing to help promote, because the idea behind Web3 is that once the ecosystem is established, all the benefits and interests are shared by the participants.

Cycle, RWA and Hong Kong

PANews: Besides DAT, will Summer Capital invest in other areas? For example, RWA and stablecoins, which are currently very popular in Hong Kong.

Mr. Zhu: I've now started my own Solana Company, and I'm basically all in on it. Our foundation will continue to support our existing investments, but we probably won't have any new ventures with such full commitment.

Regarding RWA, I think things are a bit over the top right now. Everyone wants to do it, but they may not have thought through the consequences. The core issue with RWA is liquidity . You're tokenizing assets that lack liquidity in the real world and then putting them on the trading platform of a cryptocurrency market with a market capitalization of only three or four trillion dollars—the liquidity is far from sufficient. Why did DAT succeed in the short term? Because its direction was correct: it channeled massive amounts of capital from the traditional financial world to fundamentally sound assets in the cryptocurrency market. In the short term, RWA may also need a structure similar to DAT to attract external funds to revitalize itself.

PANews: How do you view Hong Kong's future role in the Web3 field? Will it continue in this state of "moving forward amidst confusion"?

Mr. Zhu: I have a very positive outlook on Hong Kong. I have lived in Hong Kong for over 25 years, and the officials there are very business-minded and flexible. Hong Kong is inherently a conduit for East-West integration, with an open environment, a sound legal framework, and a mature third-party service system. In the field of digital assets, I believe Hong Kong will ultimately outpace and surpass Singapore.

Its dilemma lies in its reliance on China; it must be cautious to prevent policy risks from spilling over into the domestic market. I think some areas are indeed overly cautious. In the field of innovation, sometimes it's necessary to prioritize speed before pursuing perfection. Do what can be done first, and then gradually optimize.

PANews: You've experienced multiple cycles in traditional finance, while the cryptocurrency world often talks about a "four-year cycle." Do you think this pattern will change with the entry of traditional capital? Which stage are we currently in?

Mr. Zhu: We are currently in a transitional period. In the past, the cycles in the cryptocurrency market were driven more by faith, community, and narrative. In contrast, the cycles in traditional finance are longer, possibly 8-10 years, and are determined by the macroeconomy, especially liquidity and interest rates.

Now, with the large-scale entry of traditional capital and institutions, these two cycles are converging. Assets with a higher institutionalization rate, such as Bitcoin, will see their cycles more closely resemble traditional financial cycles. Our goal with DAT is to bring a longer and more stable cycle to the blockchain world.

Advice for young people: General direction, focus, and trial and error

PANews: Finally, we would like to ask you to give some advice to the young people in our industry.

Mr. Zhu: I greatly admire you young people, because youth is your greatest asset. Often, "ignorance is bliss" is a powerful force. All the successful entrepreneurs I've seen share one quality: "persistence"—once they see something they believe is right, they resolutely pursue it.

My advice to young people is:

• We need to have a clear overall direction. Looking ahead three to five years, which industry trends are clearly on the rise and supported by funding and talent? I think AI, automated robots, and crypto are all examples.
• Stay focused. Once you've chosen a major track, dedicate all your energy to it and don't scatter your efforts.
• Be willing to try and fail. You can't think through everything, so give yourself three chances to make mistakes.

I firmly believe that the blockchain industry is a field that young people should dedicate themselves to.